Japan

00:00:00: What do you think it would be like if both of a child's parents could take the whole year paid parental leave?

00:00:07: Would solve all our problems, achieve gender equality or cost fortune and little.

00:00:16: In this episode we'll meet Japanese father who together with his wife is doing exactly that.

00:00:23: I will also speak to sociologists.

00:00:25: understand why the Japanese government arrived at this policy as well.

00:00:29: several other innovative approaches.

00:00:33: The answer has something to do with gender equality, but we'll also need talk about demographic changes and the economy.

00:00:42: Finally – We will be looking at ways Japanese mothers' lives have changed in recent decades as fathers started doing more unpaid care work.

00:00:51: My name is Matthew Okonolomas And you're listening for the second episode of this series on Equal Parenting around the World.

00:00:57: Thank You for Listening & Enjoy the Show!

00:01:12: It's Nineteen Ninety-Nine.

00:01:14: What would come to be known in Japan As the Lost Decade is drawing to a close.

00:01:20: It had been a period of economic turmoil, starting with the bursting of asset price bubble in one hundred and ninety-one.

00:01:28: However over the same ten years youth culture thrived – with an explosion of interest in anime manga & video games both at home Japan and internationally.

00:01:39: it was decade transition With social contract that centered around salary man lifetime employment model being called into question And young people struggling to find a way to achieve financial stability.

00:01:53: Against this backdrop, the Japanese government launched a poster campaign on the topic of gender equality.

00:02:00: Unusually for this inexplicably niche subject matter The campaign made a surprisingly big impact.

00:02:07: So in nineteen ninety nine... ...the Japanese Government released a poster and newspaper advertisement featuring a famous celebrity couple.

00:02:18: The father is holding his baby, and the slogan was very direct.

00:02:25: If a man doesn't take care of his child we don't call him our

00:02:30: Father.".

00:02:32: Professor Hideki Nakazato is a sociologist at Konan University who specializes in parental leave.

00:02:40: A young father at that time of the poster campaign he remembers it well who in nineteen ninety-seven married Neimei Amuro, Japan's most popular female pop synom.

00:02:55: She was just twenty at the time and news caused shock amongst many younger Japanese people.

00:03:00: but Professor Nakazato tells me it also sparked their imagination.

00:03:05: using this celebrity in a poster campaign two years later shows the impact that Japanese government wanted to make

00:03:13: At The Time.

00:03:14: Many People Praised It.

00:03:16: It Felt Progressive And Refreshing But there was also criticism.

00:03:22: Some people said, wait this isn't just about father's attitudes.

00:03:27: The real issue is structural.

00:03:31: If men are working extremely long hours They simply can be involved at home.

00:03:39: So shouldn't the government fix working conditions first?

00:03:44: In fact This poster campaign came only seven years after the Japanese government had even introduced legislation on paternity leave.

00:03:53: In nineteen ninety-two, for the first time it became possible for fathers to take paternity leaf but if mother was also at home employers could reject a father's application.

00:04:04: this along with cultural norms meant that barely any fathers were making use of the measure.

00:04:11: In the two thousands, there were several incremental reforms to Japan's parental leave legislation with small improvements made each time.

00:04:19: Gradually fathers started making use of this entitlement.

00:04:24: Meet Ken.

00:04:25: My name is Kentaro Ogawa.

00:04:30: Please call me Ken.

00:04:31: I live in Tokyo in Japan With my family.

00:04:35: Ken and his wife have three kids A six-year old son a three year old daughter And a six month old baby.

00:04:42: He's currently on one year's parental leave.

00:04:45: I get childcare leaves during a year, so now mainly child care and housework at my house with my wife.

00:04:59: Ken's wife is also on one years paid leave.

00:05:02: They alternate days being responsible for their baby.

00:05:05: This is ken telling me what normal day looks like.

00:05:14: So someday go to the learning.

00:05:16: The other days I prepare for breakfast, for my kids and then after that breakfast i take up my kid's to go to another school.

00:05:27: Then After That so...I Take a baby to the Baby Press with my walking through the walking to the baby press or record my radio podcast.

00:05:49: Yeah, that's right.

00:05:50: Ken is the father of three and even has time for a parenting podcast.

00:05:54: But more about this later

00:06:16: dinner, spaghetti or hamburger like that.

00:06:19: I prepared a cooked thing after this.

00:06:23: so i picked up our kids from the nursery school and come back to my house at seven

00:06:30: p.m.,

00:06:32: go to bed with my kids After they slept.

00:06:38: ,I have free time just now.

00:06:53: Kanagawa may be unusual in how much parental leave he's taking but it is true that Japanese fathers are starting to take more leave collectively.

00:07:03: So far, so good!

00:07:05: But then what does this development mean for mothers?

00:07:08: Are they as you might think doing less unpaid care work as fathers take on more?

00:07:14: Professor Junko Nishimura is a sociologist who looks at changes in how Japanese women and mothers have been spending their time in recent decades.

00:07:22: whilst she confirmed the trend of Japanese fathers participating more The results for mothers aren't what one might expect.

00:07:31: For mothers, the time spent on housework have decreased a lot but however... ...the mother's time spent in childcare has not decreased.

00:07:43: it even increased over the past twenty years.

00:07:47: Professor Nishimura's explanation is an enduring shift in parenting attitudes towards what she calls intensive parenting To account.

00:07:57: She has identified several categories of childcare in order to build up a more detailed picture.

00:08:03: Put very simply, she compared data from two thousand and one and two thousand twenty-one And distinguished between child care time where the mother is directly engaging with The Child... ...and more passive forms Of child care whether Mother Is doing housework or working From home at the same Time!

00:08:19: She also looked At the Data for weekdays & weekends.

00:08:24: The first result was that Between two thousand One and Two thousand and Twenty-One On weekdays, time spent on that direct form of childcare increased.

00:08:33: And on weekends both forms of child care increased

00:08:37: which indicate that increasing share of mother's time has come to be devoted children.

00:08:44: She then zoomed in further and looked at the different kinds Of this first Direct Child Care.

00:08:49: Here she found That whilst things like playing directly with their Children had not increased In This Period What she calls Routine Childcare things like driving children to and from clubs, activities did increase.

00:09:15: Professor Nishimura sees a clear connection between Japan's difficulties economically in recent decades and parents who were already thinking about the skills their children will need to thrive as adults at this very early age.

00:09:31: Such skills are regarded even more important, to survive such unpredictable future societies And in such situations like soft skills are really regarded.

00:09:47: that's very important in school education, but it is very strongly influenced by the family environment.

00:10:02: In such a situation particularly among highly educated parents The risk of downward mobility for their children has become increasingly visible And I think this may be the part of reason why highly educated parents are now spending more time taking care with their children.

00:10:49: But it also meant that there were more mothers looking to take advantage of the parental leave policies, That Japanese government had been improving over years.

00:10:59: In order understand this situation It's important to understand a fundamental aspect of Japanese labour Regular and non-regular work.

00:11:08: Regular workers are those with permanent contract.

00:11:11: They're salarymen I mentioned in introduction Traditionally core sector of Japan's economy And traditionally men.

00:11:21: While some women would manage to get permanent contracts before having children, in the nineties mothers would overwhelmingly leave their regular work once they'd had a baby returning if at all only to non-regular work.

00:11:34: Professor Nakazato explained that due to importance of this distinction The concept for full or part time labour is actually limited relevance in Japanese employment culture.

00:11:45: If you are a regular worker You can choose lower hours while still being perceived of as belonging to the company.

00:11:52: just as much

00:12:20: choose part-time or shortened work hours.

00:12:23: This distinction of regular versus nonregular worker is crucial because it has a big impact on the accessibility of parental leave and other familial support measures.

00:12:34: but regular workers are disproportionately men, and nonregular workers are disproportionately women which obviously has a further influence.

00:12:47: In regular employment before the childbirth, those women increase their possibilities to continue working after a childbirth because they can utilize the varieties of work-life benefits.

00:13:02: But on the other hand... Women in nonregular employment before they have children's births it is too difficult for them limited availabilities to utilize work-life balance benefit.

00:13:21: So the implement status before childbirth really matters for women's life course

00:13:29: choice.".

00:13:30: It also matters for fathers' life choices if these fathers want be present in their childrens lives.

00:13:37: When Ken, second child came along he was a non regular working relationship and wasn't able take any leave.

00:13:44: Given that he knew from his first child what it could be like taking leave, the inability to be around at home during those months after birth was particularly hard for him.

00:14:15: from the workplace and go back to my house, taking a child.

00:14:23: So every time so moving or thinking not many times to rest very stressful and tired at that time.

00:14:39: Professor Nakazato argues that things have improved gradually for non-regular workers in terms of access to support, but he admits it's not the whole story.

00:14:54: This intersection between

00:15:04: class and gender is something all efforts towards gender equality need.

00:15:10: It's fine having policies that apply for those with solid, permanent jobs.

00:15:14: But what about those more precarious drops who are scraping by?

00:15:18: And of course the problem is these are precisely families need to help them most because they're less able buy themselves out their problems.

00:15:40: Professor Nishimura identifies food preparation as a major site classed parenting divides

00:15:47: And there is an ethnographic study which indicates that the class differences among working mothers to cope with such food preparation tasks.

00:15:58: The study compared the ways middle-class mothers and working-class mother's cope with this situation.

00:16:05: Middle-class models, they often use like a food delivery service and they can even afford for the delivery service of organic food.

00:16:23: And if they do choose to do some cooking, They can afford the time-saving kitchen appliances that help speed things up.

00:16:29: Voila!

00:16:30: A healthy three course meal for little ones.

00:16:33: And on the other hand, it is difficult for working class mothers to use organic food delivery service or to purchase expensive kitchen appliances.

00:16:45: So instead they often rely on low cost prepared meals which can be purchased at a supermarket in Japan.

00:16:57: They also discussed that the working mothers using the different strategies to cope with a time squeeze during weekdays depending on their social class.

00:17:14: If you can afford to outsource care work, then there's less of it to do so.

00:17:18: an equal share theoretically becomes easier.

00:17:21: This is something that motivates K Majima A father who is founder and CEO of a company that provides delivery meals to various clientele in Japanese society.

00:17:33: Our customers dual income households, especially families raising young children And our company end also out.

00:17:45: my life goal it's to help reduce the burden and duty from every household.

00:17:53: A sociologist by training Kei took a look at Japanese society during his twenties on the hunt for problem to solve.

00:18:01: He settled in unequal distribution of care work between genders.

00:18:27: Japanese women have three jobs in company and house chores taking care of children.

00:18:37: Three jobs, it's so busy!

00:18:39: It is not fair.

00:18:43: So I detect this problem...so I think I will resolve these problems.

00:18:51: make true fairness to the Japanese household.

00:18:56: That more Japanese mothers are working is a trend that we've mentioned already.

00:19:00: But Professor Nishimura points out, it's not simply the numbers here but also the nature of work mothers do changing.

00:19:07: More of them in regular works jobs with permanent contracts and better support measures.

00:19:13: So Japanese companies now trying to hire qualified women to retain their core workforce.

00:19:24: Probably it is very important for the Japanese companies to keep those qualified workers.

00:19:31: so if they only hire male and male-qualified employees, um...it's not enough of them.

00:19:38: So Japanese companies now need qualified women To keep their core labor force.

00:19:44: That reason why many Japanese companies are And large Japanese companies are providing generous work-life violence policies.

00:19:56: It's families like these, where both parents are in regular employment and collectively have less time for domestic labor and childcare that Kay Majima has in mind with his meal delivery service.

00:20:08: but he also wants to lead by example as CEO of a company with around three hundred employees.

00:20:14: K is very unusual in that he himself took one month of parental leave when his child was born, one and a half years ago.

00:20:22: By the way Ken and I spoke at eight AM Japanese time which for me was midnight.

00:20:27: so there is some housework going on in the background

00:20:31: And as I said, our company aims to create a social society where of course women and husband or wife are shared more clearly.

00:21:05: They're

00:21:05: jobless chores in house In order achieve fairness for the family.

00:21:15: So if you I want to talk about family equality.

00:21:22: Of course,I have to participate in

00:21:25: the job

00:21:29: by myself.

00:21:32: Second, i wanted it be a role model inside my company and our goal at Antways is for one hundred percent of employees take credit leave.

00:21:47: Whilst you could point out that Kay only took one month whilst his wife took more, if you consider the world Kay moves in as a CEO of Japanese company this is actually fairly radical.

00:21:58: And he doesn't mince words when it comes to Japanese men's shortcomings.

00:22:17: Just cut the vegetables.

00:22:20: It's so easy, but not that easy because Not only cut or bake something We have to buy some things and also washing dishes And it is important too.

00:22:37: It isn't physical work

00:22:40: But

00:22:41: brainwork.

00:22:42: I think Mentor, thank you.

00:22:46: And women have to think about

00:22:48: their, what

00:22:54: are there in the fridge?

00:22:58: What they have to buy something supermarket.

00:23:04: Even if you had to think of nutrition especially for children then many things should be thought.

00:23:22: It's hard mental work.

00:23:25: The only thing I find myself reflecting on after our conversation is Kaye s approach to achieving gender equality.

00:23:34: As well as getting more men, he is also engaged in automating or commoditizing some of this labour through his business and delivery meals.

00:23:45: When asked whether the service was expensive He replies that the economy of scales, possible through such an operation mean it's actually often the same price as buying your own produce at a supermarket.

00:23:56: Just you save time preparing it!

00:24:00: And I'm torn….

00:24:02: There is part to me who wants to argue precisely about this labor which makes family feel real and simply automating away somehow dissolves family values.

00:24:19: that thinks it would be absolutely fantastic not to have to think up something to cook, get it cooked and then later on do the dishes.

00:24:27: And instead have all that time to read or play with the kids!

00:24:52: In all of my conversations with Japanese fathers and parenthood researchers The major theme that keeps coming through is work –the culture at work policies around work-life balance–and Japan is known for its work ethic.

00:25:12: There's no statutory sick leave in the country.

00:25:15: Instead, employees are expected to use their annual leave if illness prevents them from working.

00:25:22: A government survey in twenty-twenty three found that whilst the average leave entitlement was just over seventeen days a year Employees were only taking an average of ten days.

00:25:33: In other words Japanese employees are only taking around sixty percent Of the little leaves they're entitled.

00:25:41: So that's the backdrop against which conversations around parental leave are happening.

00:25:47: Now there were two policies, The Japanese government introduced on gender equality.

00:25:51: That a worth looking at.

00:25:53: Firstly – the right to work reduced hours Introduced in twenty ten And secondly… One of these two policies has worked incredibly well and the other has produced much more mixed results.

00:26:14: Yet on the surface, they both seem like they'd improve equality.

00:26:18: So let's take a closer look.

00:26:21: In twenty-ten The Japanese government introduced legislation giving all parents of children under three the right to reduce their hours to six hours per day without requiring permission from their employer.

00:26:33: Sounds good!

00:26:34: The problem is there no mechanism to encourage fathers make use it meaning that its been by large mothers who have actually ended up using.

00:26:42: It

00:26:43: seems like this reduced working hours system is often regarded as something for women to use in many Japanese companies.

00:26:57: And actually, what I have heard?

00:27:01: that most of the employees utilizing these benefits are women.

00:27:11: Professor Nakazato provided me with some statistics on who actually reduces their hours.

00:27:17: Between twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen, around fifty percent of mothers did so And one point six per cent have mended Which is incredible.

00:27:27: But he put that in the perspective Of what it was like ten years earlier.

00:27:33: So its increasing from two thousand five to nine.

00:27:39: the baby born in those periods.

00:27:41: The father, only zero point.

00:27:46: six percent of fathers use that

00:27:49: option.".

00:27:50: Whilst I lived in Germany, the statistic for Father's working part-time was six per cent which i thought it pretty extreme.

00:27:58: but one point six is quite something.

00:28:02: Professor Nishimura therefore skeptical and her evaluation on this policy?

00:28:07: Yes, so I would say that this reduced work our system might strengthen the gender division of labor in many families.

00:28:23: But it's a different story with the second example – The legislation requiring companies to inform their employees who are becoming fathers.

00:28:33: Both researchers told me they saw profound positive effects as a result of this legislation coming into force in twenty-twenty two.

00:28:41: Previously, conservative cultural attitudes had been too much an obstacle for the progressive legislation.

00:29:03: fathers to say their employers that they want to take parental leave.

00:29:09: But after this amendment was introduced, some of the employees in the workplace would tell the father you are eligible so it is upto your decision whether or not you will take parent leave and in such situations, fathers are easier to say their employers that they want to take parental leave.

00:29:36: But the Japanese government went further, as well as this obligation within the company The government also obliged all companies with one thousand or more employees To publish the parental leave take-up rates amongst fathers.

00:29:50: So these majors created stronger pressure on employers.

00:29:55: so we could say This marked One of major turning points in Japan's Parental Leave policy.

00:30:03: Professor Nakazato explained to me the political situation behind.

00:30:32: What's so elegant about this policy is that it barely costs anything for the government.

00:30:37: The leave entitlement was already there beforehand, and just wasn't being made use of.

00:30:42: So instead of adding more months on and having to justify these potential costs they did something about the culture.

00:30:49: Ken Ugar was first into parental leave before this reform came in place.

00:30:55: My boss or Anzoya very surprised When I asked for him to take care of Dave in six months, the boss was really surprised by how amazing.

00:31:08: So he said and so at first he hesitated.

00:31:15: Then six years and two children later Ken asked for twelve month's leave to look after his third baby.

00:31:22: His bosses reaction this time When his year of parental leave comes to an end this August, Ken hopes to return to work part-time.

00:31:43: Partly out of self interest because he likes being around kids.

00:31:47: but that's not the only reason.

00:31:54: And I wanted to spend more time at my house because three kids are very tough work, i think.

00:32:01: So for me wife is a...I don't want too big task or responsibility so take care of

00:32:19: her.

00:32:20: At its meal delivery company Kei Majima has also tried to foster a culture that embraces parenthood.

00:32:27: Firstly, by leading by example and taking parental leave as the CEO of The Company but he also encourages his employees.

00:32:34: use the Slack channel The Company set up for parents to share tips

00:32:53: Talk with them

00:32:54: about

00:32:55: what we have to do if it's a children wake up early morning and the wake-up often And What is that best?

00:33:07: Child food I can buy in the supermarket.

00:33:12: Yes, so many many useful information.

00:33:16: Yeah

00:33:17: So actually It's more easy for me to talk with my colleagues, my employees and more than other people in my bunkyo city.

00:33:29: It made me wonder whether Japanese parents also grumble at work about how hard life is – squeezing-in childcare and paid labour?

00:33:38: Somehow I can't quite imagine it but i guess that has happened!

00:33:43: It also makes me realise the inner country where forty five hours of overtime per month and where unofficial social occasions with your colleagues are often not exactly optional, the importance of a company culture that has space for your identity as a parent is probably even larger than in other countries when you're not amongst your colleagues for quite as many of your waking hours.

00:34:07: And thats why we now going to look at organizations that have sprung up help companies transition towards becoming family friendly workplaces.

00:34:26: Shodai Hirano is the founder of a Japanese organization called Daddy Support that advises companies on how to help fathers with work-life balance.

00:34:38: Many companies don't have their skills or knowhow to support fathers, That's why we at The Daddy Support Association work as specialists.

00:35:24: My first point is that in Japan, Taking parental leave and getting involved in childcare are basically optional, not compulsory.

00:35:32: And that's a

00:35:33: problem."

00:35:36: Even if it were just one month I think there needs to be.

00:35:39: rule says people must take

00:35:50: it.

00:35:56: Shurei says that whilst he is passionate about fathers, daddy support isn't just about making life better for dads.

00:36:05: That's why as our organization's core principle we use the phrase Daddy Support Family Well-Being.

00:36:13: I've always said supporting fathers isn't only about fathers.

00:36:17: it connects to well being of a whole family.

00:36:23: Another organisation that was set up with a view to getting Japanese fathers more involved at home is Fathering Japan, an organisation that's been around for about twenty years.

00:36:33: In fact Ken Ogawa came across the organisation as student

00:36:39: Since I was a college student and belonged in the fatherly Japanese community.

00:36:44: so we went into other family interviews.

00:36:54: How do you get childcare leave or how to spend a daily life?

00:36:59: We interviewed for many persons.

00:37:03: So through the interview, I could imagine of my father as very good

00:37:12: father.".

00:37:14: As a father Ken is now involved in the organization helping others in their way that he was supported by his students.

00:37:21: So before I was a father, I gave an interview.

00:37:26: After I was the father...I interviewed as a father.

00:37:32: As Ken explains The motivation wasn't only gender equality but also concern about Japan's demographic trend.

00:37:40: We planned BBQ for young people because we tried to decreasing the birth rate in Japan.

00:37:53: So we want to make an impact for the college students, and so we should make many partners through the barbecue

00:38:04: here.".

00:38:04: This

00:38:26: is the second key question I want to look at this episode.

00:38:29: Why Is Japan Promoting Such Policies?

00:38:33: It's clear that both a genuine desire for equality... ...and concern about population are at work.

00:38:39: But how do these two motivations relate to each other and play out on a political level?

00:38:45: Looking at some of the papers that government has produced over the past thirty years, Professor Nishimura reckons concerns about low fertility are at root for many policies.

00:38:55: For example in the Government Report on Health and Welfare in The men's involvement in childcare is recognized as a strategy to reduce women's child care burden and promote measures against low fertility.

00:39:16: So yes, I think the primary goal was set at promoting fertility.

00:39:22: that my impression.

00:39:24: But Professor Nakazato suspects that, at least in part some politicians cite declining fertility rates as a cover for advancing policies that promote gender equality.

00:39:35: In Japan –as is other countries– even just using the word GENDER can turn people off and government has started being creative with their terminology to not anger traditionalists.

00:39:47: It's strange... avoid the term gender to promote gender equality.

00:39:52: But actually, there is a strong hesitance... ...to introduce gender equality.

00:40:05: They didn't use the terms gender they just used cooperation between men and women To participate in society.

00:40:17: So that's the actual translation of the legislation for gender equality.

00:40:23: In light of this, I can see why government might choose to favour arguments with broader appeal.

00:40:29: The declining fertility.

00:40:32: coping in those directions is key to promote further involvement in child care.

00:40:44: That's logic for governments.

00:40:53: But

00:40:55: the government is careful not to come across as too coercive here.

00:41:12: have children.

00:41:21: That's the problem, that is a logic to avoid... To avoid the sense of obligation for

00:41:31: people.".

00:41:31: This what known as their fertility gap The difference between number of children and the number of kids would like to have.

00:41:41: One reason cited in many countries For choosing not-to-have children Is financial cost.

00:41:46: Many women also cite the impact Care responsibilities will have on their career.

00:41:52: Dali Supports founder Shoda Hirano mentioned this to me in our conversation.

00:41:57: The Japanese women still feel that having children could cost them their career, hence the desire to get fathers take on more caregiving and combat this belief.

00:42:06: Professor Nakazato believes even where couples are both working full time it's rare.

00:42:11: men are truly equally responsible for childcare And he sees one reason as being that during the formative first year, The mother is usually at home until her child enters childcare.

00:42:22: Whereas father will only have taken a small period of time off with his mother around too.

00:42:28: I asked him whether Japanese people thought fathers could look after babies

00:42:38: and mothers return to work sometime before their children go into nursery.

00:42:53: So that's the only option for fathers is they stay as long time with family, but not possibility of taking role in main care while mother returns.

00:43:15: So they don't see that type of choices or scenarios.

00:43:22: So increasing fathers' take-up rate and extending the period for fathers is current main goal, so it doesn't necessarily mean increasing mothers opportunity to work as much time or share responsibility equally with them.

00:43:47: In fact, the Japanese government is so focused on the metric of fathers taking leave that they allow both parents to stay at home for an entire year as we saw it in the beginning with Ken Ogawa.

00:44:18: they have to allow both parents staying at home.

00:44:22: That's how the policy

00:44:24: grew.".

00:44:25: As Professor Nakazato points out, this is a very particular definition of equality.

00:44:31: I think that The goal is gender equality but They... Think Gender Equality Is Achieved By Father taking as long.

00:44:53: Leave us mothers.

00:44:55: Professor Nakazato makes a good case for models that specifically seek to increase the time fathers spend as primary caregivers, though this is way really change norms attitudes and behavior.

00:45:07: but during our conversation I couldn't help think of Ken Ogawa who was on twelve months leave along with his wife.

00:45:13: because the thing is... Ken had made such pleasant impression me!

00:45:20: And many parents equal care And for most of them, it's a complete hustle.

00:45:28: And listening to Ken tell me about his life I got no sense of hustle at all.

00:45:33: Sure he has get up at five am.

00:45:35: if you want time go through Iran But also have the time.

00:45:38: do cooking Time cleaning without being stressed by hundred different other things Even as time for podcast.

00:45:48: Whereas i've spent best part year putting this three-part series together Ken publishes his episodes somewhat more often.

00:45:56: So, almost every day I record a daily life with my kids or baby.

00:46:09: How to enjoy childcare was how to spend a lot of time with family.

00:46:23: so...

00:46:24: Almost!

00:46:25: Five minutes to ten minutes each day.

00:46:29: So I record it.

00:46:31: Ken has made recording his episodes a part of this daily routine.

00:46:34: He does them whilst walking to the local family cafe, His baby strapped in the sling.

00:46:40: It's all left hand Smartphone and left-hand.

00:46:43: so mic like that on the walkie-talkie.

00:46:47: Ken also has really powerful argument for approach he & wife have taken.

00:46:56: parents do get childcare leave together because the child care is continued among around eighteen years or twenty years.

00:47:09: The long time, it's a long time!

00:47:13: Long years!

00:47:15: So how to say?

00:47:18: We should make a partnership and we should strengthen our partnership with my wife so... To take care of a child is very important for the partnership, I think.

00:47:36: The first step was to make sure that it's based on your family and then after that you have to do

00:47:43: some

00:47:44: cross-step by steps so we can strengthen our partnership.

00:47:48: First time is really important in my opinion.

00:47:52: Then i recommend many families.

00:47:58: This

00:48:00: is precisely the point.

00:48:02: The partnership, that's the relationship it's all about.

00:48:07: and That relationship It's not about the time spent doing this or that Measuring up who is spending how long during the laundry you're making the lunchboxes working family holidays.

00:48:17: Or at least it's not just about them.

00:48:20: It's about your bond as a couple About the adventure you run.

00:48:24: How much are able to share with each other?

00:48:27: And that's why I find Ken's choice so inspiring.

00:48:32: True, many men would be lazy and let their partners do the majority of the care work.

00:48:37: So i get.

00:48:38: probably most people shouldn't be trusted with twelve months parental leave at home But there is something utopian about it Something which will create such a strong foundation to ken & his wife bond as parents As partners.

00:48:56: He also has fantastic ambition for him ,his wife and three children even if he does take it with a pinch of salt.

00:49:12: But

00:49:15: my

00:49:33: son likes to play soccer.

00:49:58: It feels like there's a real development going on in Japan at the moment.

00:50:01: A lot has happened, both through reform and cultural change And I'm sure that NGOs such as Daddy Support and Fathering Japan are part of it.

00:50:13: For Professor Nakazato who studied parental leave for many years... ...it is an exciting time

00:50:20: In whole society different from earlier times and fathers taking leave is much more natural for people.

00:50:34: It's not unusual, but ten years ago it

00:50:38: was very

00:50:40: unusual And most of the people they cannot even imagine that

00:50:44: fathers take leave for

00:50:47: childcare But changed rapidly in these five-years or so.

00:50:55: In fact, he recently had a big feature in one of Japan's biggest newspapers – Asahi Shimbun.

00:51:02: The newspaper spoke to Professor Nakazato about his belief that the key lies in getting fathers to take leave on their own and become primary caregivers And it interviewed two Japanese fathers who have done this.

00:51:14: During our conversation in April, Professor Nakazo asks me to wait for a moment whilst he pops downstairs To get the print copy with the article in it so we can show him during video call.

00:51:25: I do get the feeling he's a little bit proud of the article.

00:51:29: So, i think this is the first major newspaper article focusing on that issue so it will be changing.

00:51:44: It feels like Japan has come along way in thirty years from a poster over celebrity to chided fathers for not doing more without divulging how they should be achieved to in-depth features in national newspapers specifically about what it's like for fathers to become primary caregivers and how recent legislation has been designed to support this model.

00:52:04: Speaking of fathers, I get the impression too!

00:52:09: Finally after several lost decades in a different sense Japanese fathers are making up for lost time working out on how make serious progress towards gender equality & equal parenting.

00:52:21: After ten years researching parental leave, Professor Nakazato seems optimistic about what the coming year might

00:52:43: bring.